Are The 10 Commandments Still Important For Today?

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I thought I would draw up this article for all of you in order to give you a complete list of the 10 commandments. Most Christians do not have all of them memorized.

I will give you the specific verse from Scripture where the 10 commandments are being given to us by the Lord, along with some of the additional statements that God makes under some of these commandments that you usually do not see on the little tablets of the 10 commandments at your local Christian bookstore.

Before I give you this verse, consider one thing. Even though the 10 Commandments are from the Old Testament, all of these commandments still apply to everyone in this day and age.

No exceptions! I call each of these commands “stone commandments.”

The fact that God the Father would manifest 10 specific commandments on a tablet of stone tells me that He is very serious about these specific commandments!

This was one big huge event when it happened in the story of Moses. The fact that God would go this far in manifesting these special 10 commandments on a real live tablet of stone tells me that these commandments should never be taken lightly or for granted.

Most Christians have heard about these Ten Commandments while going through grade school and high school and the story as to how they all came about. As a result, I feel that many Christians take these special  commandments for granted and really do not realize the power and authority that is on these special commandments.

The 10 commandments come to us from Exodus 20:1-17. Here is the verse:

1 –  And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me.

 2-  You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

 3 – You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

 4 – Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.

For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5 – Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

6 – You shall not murder.

7 – You shall not commit adultery.

8 – You shall not steal.

9 -You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10 – You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

The above 10 commandments don’t need any explanation. They mean exactly what they are saying. It’s quite amazing how many of these commandments are being broken on a regular basis, even by Christians themselves.

If you look very closely at each of these commandments, they really do cover a broad spectrum as to what God is expecting from each one of us.

These 10 commandments are good, basic, moral laws that will help keep us out of trouble with ourselves, family, friends, and neighbors. God knows what is best for all of us and He simply wants all of us to stay out of trouble in order that we may be able to live in peace and harmony with one another.

The fact that God would go so far as to have these basic 10 commandments manifested on a stone tablet really tells me they are very important, and that each Christian should know what they are and do their best to abide by them with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Feel free to pass this list of the 10 commandments onto your friends and family.

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397 Responses to “Are The 10 Commandments Still Important For Today?”

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  1. Cindy - July 18, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    Paul, thank you for your comment. I agree with you. We are saved by grace, not by works. Yes, we did need the commandments to teach us about sin, that sin exists and that we needed a savior – right? If anytime your worried about “doing” your getting back into works. Just try “being” the beloved that you are….

  2. Lydia - July 17, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    To Paul,

    Yes, we will all fall short of perfection, but Jesus will fulfill in us what is missing. That does not mean we should NOT OBEY God’s laws to the best of our ability. In Christ we do not have the license to sin, but FREEDOM to CHOOSE to OBEY God.

    Hebrews 12:14 – Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; WITHOUT HOLINESS no one will see the Lord.

    God’s laws show us the way to holy living. What we are unable to fully achieve, Jesus will supply, but it’s up to us to do OUR PART as well as we possibly can.
    We should choose holiness – and not sin willfully and with full knowledge, with hope that Jesus will look the other way. Jesus taught against sin and always after healing people he told them to go and LEAVE THEIR LIFE OF SIN. Does that mean we SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT obey God?
    Jesus himself said that only a FEW will enter (or find) the road that leads to life and heaven. Where does that leave all those that profess their belief in Jesus but think that they can continue living a life of sin (by NOT OBEYING God’s laws) because Jesus paid the price?

    Matthew 7:13-15 – Enter through the narrow gate. For WIDE IS THE GATE and BROAD IS THE ROAD that leads to DESTRUCTION, and many enter through it. But SMALL IS THE GATE AND NARROW THE ROAD THAT LEADS TO LIFE, AND ONLY A FEW FIND IT.

    Matthew 7:21 – Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT ONLY THE ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven.

    In my book, doing the will of Jesus’ Father = obeying God’s laws to the best of our ability. That does not put us UNDER the law because God’s grace through Christ is at work in us to help us achieve victory over sin and enable us to OBEY God better and more fully.

    This is a very serious teaching by Jesus and he did not make light of it during his ministry. Someone said somewhere: These are God’s COMMANDMENTS, not his SUGGESTIONS. He did not suggest we obey – he commanded it. And Jesus came to fulfill what we lacked in achieving perfection.

    I really don’t understand Christians being so AGAINST OBEYING GOD. We obey our parents – so how come we try to find ways of NOT OBEYING God by calling it being UNDER THE LAW?? I mean, this is OUR CREATOR – and he demands HOLINESS – so why not suffer a little and leave our comfort zones, and try our best to show him our love by living according to his commandments?

    Also, nobody is judging anybody here – the discussions do get heated sometimes, but mostly this is only an exchange of ideas and people looking for answers.

  3. paul a sinner - July 14, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    As a belever in the Lord Jesus,the crist,I cannot believe all the so called christians comments on the 10 commandments.We are suposed to be dead to the law by the grace of God through faith in his son,who forfilled the law for us.I am not saying that the law is of no value as it teaches us what sin is.We will all fall short of forfilling the law as only the LORD JESUS his only begotten son was able to forfill the law,but had to die for it and us to have the right to eternal life.Please brothers and sisters in Jesus stop judging eachother,as there is only one judge,the father.

  4. Kurt - June 29, 2012 at 7:16 am

    Logic and religion are like oil and water….they don’t mix. So it’s useless for non-believers to use logic against the believers. But it also makes no sense at all for believers to try and use logic to explain their religion! This is their downfall because it reveals their ignorance. Really, it’s embarrassing because the logic they use is incredibly full of holes. But hey, if their religion keeps them from running wild in the streets and killing their neighbors then maybe we should be thankful for it instead of always trying to point out how nonsensical it all is.

  5. Eugene - June 20, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    Hi Jim,

    I can’t promise that this will be short but please read through carefully…

    From your posts, I have been trying to understand your thought process and you always wanted to reason out logically which I have and will try to do. But unfortunately, you have treated your own logic and interpretation as truth apart from the context of the Scriptures. Because that’s how you logically understand it, then it should be the truth – otherwise, it’s a lie. I never said that you don’t think but let us be clear, do think and reason out properly according to the right context of the Scriptures.

    Now, the problem is that you think that the Bible is a mix-up and its up to you to determine which is the truth and which are lies. By doing so, you placed yourself in a dilemma… how sure are you that what you picked was the truth? Or maybe what you picked was a lie?

    ‘Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.’ (Deut 4:2). Also refer to Deut 12:32, ‘See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.’

    Have you not realized that by choosing what you think is truth and false from the Scriptures is actually omitting from the Scriptures? Don’t you think this is not a ‘glaring truth’? I’ll throw you back your question: IF God did not preserve His Words and there was no truthful Word of God (or the Bible is a mix-up as you think), why would God even warn people of not omitting from it?

    You said, “The Bible, which originated as the true inspired words of God has now, over a long period of time, evolved very subtly into a mixture of truths and lies and that’s why God said what He said in Jeremiah 8:7-8.” (end of quote)

    Neither of the verses you quote say that God will not and cannot preserve His Words. Why does the Bible warn people of false prophets and satan clothing himself like an angel of light? Because God will not and cannot preserve His Word?! That’s really a wrong conclusion! So now you have a theory, which implies that God did not preserve His Words? For many times, the Israelites failed to uphold their covenant with God and I really cannot logically understand how God corrected His people if He allowed lies to go on as lies. If this is the case, satan must have abused God and God just allowed satan to destroy His Word? Honestly, NOTHING in the Scriptures says that God will not preserve His Word! What the Scriptures say are these and please read them carefully,

    • “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33)
    • “For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:18)
    • “It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.” (Luke 16:17)
    • “…but the word of the Lord endures forever.”(1 Peter 1:25)
    • “Your word, Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.” (Psalm 119:89)
    • “The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever.” (Isaiah 40:8)
    • “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord. “My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips, on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants—from this time on and forever,” says the Lord. (Isaiah 59:21)

    Here’s my favorite: “…so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11)

    For the record, GOD HAS AND WILL PRESERVE HIS WORD FROM ETERNITY TO ETERNITY!!! Now, please stop with your theory that there is no true Word of God (the Bible) today, okay? By the way, my statement stands unanswered: Point me to another book that has better qualities and facts than the Bible. Questioning the validity of the Bible would question the validity of all historical documents.

    Let’s move on…

    Your choosing specific verses as truths and lies is definitely a problem with Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32. In addition to this, you would have problems with the concept of Trinity because you pick what you want and what suits your interpretation. Could you please go back to the Bible and tell me how God revealed and manifested Himself throughout history? You don’t have to worry because God has preserved His Words.

    You also have trouble viewing Christ being ‘helpless, beaten up and crucified’ because you have omitted many other important truths… you always put brakes when you get to the crucified or death part… C’mon, JESUS CHRIST ROSE FROM THE GRAVE! There are many important facts before and after the cross. Let me give you some and I cant promise that this would be short…

    I would presume that you know that God did not just give Moses the Ten Commandments, right? While Moses was on top of Mt Sinai, God gave instructions regarding the Tabernacle (Exodus 25 to 40) and instructions to observe some feasts (Feasts of the Lord in Leviticus 23). These feasts are very significant and let me just point to two: (1) the Feast of Passover so that the Israelites do not forget what God did in Egypt and (2) the Feast of Tabernacles so that the Israelites remember that God was with them in the wilderness.

    Let’s step back into Egypt which was about 1500+years BC… the last plague which God poured on Egypt was the angel of death (or destroyer) passing through Egypt to kill the firstborn where the term PASSOVER come from (please… please read Exodus 11 and 12). Remember that this last and final plague will set the Israelites free from bondage to Egypt (again, the sinner from the bondage of sin and satan) but IF the Israelites were still alive after the destroyer passes. The Israelites CANNOT DO anything to free up themselves from bondage to the Egyptians and to escape the destroyer except if God GAVE A WAY!!! Indeed, God gave a way of deliverance for the Israelites. Read Exodus 12 and tell me what the Israelites have to do but let me give you some anyway: (1) they were to choose a lamb that is without blemish/defect (1 Pet 1:18-20), firstborn, male (Matt 1:23; Is 7:14) and hidden for four days (Matt 21-26: Nisan 10-14), (2) the lamb had to die – they were to kill it in the evening (refers to 3pm – the 9th hour) (Matt 27:46), (3) the lamb’s blood must be applied at the doorframes. “The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you.” (Ex 12:13), (4) the Israelites must stay inside the house (They would have to depend on the blood on the doorposts of their houses to save their firstborn from death.) and (5) must not break any of the lamb’s bone (read John 19:33). There’s a lot more and hope you see a picture here. Remember that this has been embedded in the Jewish culture and tradition long before Christianity came about – so you can’t say it’s a fabricated lie again. This is history and culture! Sacrifices didn’t start and end during Passover… even during Cain and Abel’s time, God demanded sacrifice from the firstfruits and as we know it, God rejected Cain’s grain offering but accepted Abel’s animal sacrifice.

    You asked, why won’t God just forgive our sins? …the Israelites kept on sinning and the world keeps on sinning because God forgives anyway(?)… you should know better than that. But who do you think would God choose to forgive? Anyway, let me continue about what God instructed Moses for the Israelites…

    While the Israelites journeyed in the wilderness, they were to build a Tabernacle where God will dwell in the midst of Israelites – remember the pillar of cloud that guides them?… so, what is this Tabernacle? It was a place where they bring their offerings and meet God. (Side note: I really hope that you read about the Feasts of the Lord and the Tabernacle because that would give you a better understanding because I am trying to squeeze information here.) Anyway, the Tabernacle was a place of grace. While on top of Mt Sinai, God instructed Moses and the Israelites to present a sacrifice (Leviticus 1) SO THAT GOD WILL FORGIVE THEIR SIN – all contained in the Book of Law – a WITNESS to the Israelites when they get to the Promised Land. God will only forgive the Israelites their sins if they presented a sacrifice BUT their sacrifice is only valid for one year. They have to do this every year so that God forgives them of their sins for the past year. We don’t need to interpret these because all these are God’s commands – not a puzzle for us to figure out okay! We wonder why all these offering… how about the passover lamb in Egypt? “…without the shedding of blood, there is no remissions of sins!” But the problem with these animals sacrifices is that it cannot TOTALLY remove sin…

    I hope you see a better picture before you start quoting individual verses. There are lots and lots and lots of truth in the Scriptures which are embedded in the Jewish culture and tradition (if you really want proof!). Only if you travel through the whole Bible that you will see the bigger picture… recorded by 40individuals in about 1600years… God is amazing!

    Again, God is greater than what our minds can think and imagine! To God be the glory!!!

  6. Jim_M - June 19, 2012 at 9:06 pm

    Eugene,
    In addition, I would also like to refresh your memory on what you claim you didn’t said.
    Your comments :
    ‘By the way, allow me to correct some statements (another example of distortion but I will preserve what I have said):
    You said, “It all begin because I started to think. Maybe that’s where my problem is as you said we are not suppose to think when studying the Bible.” (end of quote) >>> I did not say this and this statement is false because logically how could you study if you don’t think. ….’ End of quote.
    Eugene, you did imply that we are not suppose to think when studying the Bible when you said in your posting dated June 16 ‘Unfortunately, many people try to interpret the Bible using logic because they basically blinded or do not believe in God..’ Here, ‘interpret’ means to study for how can you interpret if you don’t study and ‘using logic’ is to think for how can you use logic if you don’t think.

  7. Jim_M - June 19, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    Eugene,
    You don’t have to apologize. We are exchanging our views and we are both trying to stress out a point, which understandably may sound harsh at times..
    Anyway, when I told Rams that I’m not really into religion, I was just trying to be humble as I considered Rams and the people in this forum are all experts in the Bible scriptures while I always considered myself a student. Nothing to understand about that.
    Let me try to respond to your other comments without being too lengthy (I try).
    You said I went to the Bible to prove that it’s distorted. Well, that’s not quite correct. The intention was not to find faults with the Bible but the intention was to find true justification of the Bible for portraying the man we love and called God as a helpless, beaten up and crucified man. A situation which I cannot accept a God to be in.
    You said ‘….. you look at the errors of man and forget that God, He is the Almighty! He is more than able to preserve His Word!!!’
    If you believe He is Almighty and He is more than capable to preserve His Word, don’t you think He is more than capable to just forgive our sins if He so choose to and to whoever He wants to? But no, the Bible arrogantly implies God has to die to save all Man’s sins ! The glaring truth is its you and the Christians’ belief are the one that forget that God is the Almighty. I have always place God in the highest esteem and have many times indicated because God is the Almighty in All His Glory, God will NEVER be in the position as what the Bible portrayed Him to be (errors of man?). God created Man, He is the Creator and a Creator can never be like His creation, let alone to sacrifice Himself for the sins of His own creation ? Funny how you always add a bottom line tag ‘God is greater than what our minds can think and imagine! To God be the glory!!!’ and yet your mind have no trouble to think and imagine that a God must die in a humiliating manner to forgive our sins.
    The Bible, which originated as the true inspired words of God has now, over a long period of time, evolved very subtly into a mixture of truths and lies and that’s why God said what He said in Jeremiah 8:7-8. Why would God said so if He believe His Law will still be intact with His true Words?
    God also said ‘Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD, YOUR GOD, that I give you.’ Deuteronomy 4:2. Is Trinity one of the additions ?
    You asked how do we know which are truths and which are lies ? Again, God is Just, He gave Man the faculty of Intelligence to think. If at one side, we say God is One, He is the Almighty in all His Glory and yet on the other side, we say He is ‘3 in 1’ and He need to die for our sins then seriously, we need to think and validate the related verses in the context of Deuteronomy 4:2 and Jeremiah 8:7-8. If you don’t, then you will believe in anything.

  8. Eugene - June 18, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    Hi Jim M,

    I understand your respect for your parents and your parents’ church and I respect that but would that mean that you have not gone to church for many years now? Which group have you been associating yourself and your family now? Apologies for my questioning but I really don’t understand why you previously told Rams (on April 21, 2012) that you are not really into religion but now you say that you study religious scriptures – quite a short time frame from then and now.

    Allow me to breakdown your post…

    You said, “…but then if I were to find the truth, then I must face my doubts head-on and pray to God that He will guide me to the right way. Its like if you want to know whats right, then you must know whats wrong in the first place and vice-versa.” “…I decided to study the religious scriptures, in particular the Bible again for I believe if the Bible is indeed distorted, it must have been prophesized as so many others that have been prophesized in the Bible and came by.” (end of quote)

    Here’s the problem, you went to the Bible to prove that it’s distorted. You have already boxed your thoughts that it’s distorted even before you started opening it. In so doing, you will miss and have already missed a lot of things. As I have said before, you look at the errors of man and forget that God, He is the Almighty! He is more than able to preserve His Word!!!

    Your statement, “…the Law of the Lord/Bible can and has been tampered by scribes since the very early days…” (end of quote) follows an ERRONEOUS CONCLUSION that the Bible today is distorted. Let me show you an example of what distortion of God’s Word is:

    If you read Deuteronomy 31, God told Moses that once the Israelites get into the Promised Land, they will again go back to the ways of Egypt – worshipping other gods, rejecting God and their covenant with God. This was the prediction in the chapter that you pointed to and not that Moses predicted the corruption of the Bible after his death (as you stated it) – again, Moses NEVER said nor implied the distortion of the Word of God! Go back to Exodus 19:3-8 where the Israelites are getting themselves into covenant with God (please read all verses)… God was saying, ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’

    And guess how the Israelites responded in verse 8… “We will do everything the Lord has said.” They were very confident that they can and will do everything that the Lord has said… but God knew better! …and we have seen how many times Israel has failed to keep their covenant with God. This covenant was renewed in Deuteronomy 28, 29 and 30. Remember that only the younger generation Israelites will enter the Promised Land and not those standing in Mt Sinai when God gave the Ten Commandments – they grew up in the wilderness and have not experienced Egypt – but the covenant still applies to them even though it was their parents and grandparents who responded in verse 8. Moses wrote the Book of the Law to remind the Israelites when they enter the Promised Land because Moses himself won’t be there to remind them. It was a witness of their covenant with God!

    So, when you referred to a verse, you misinterpreted and distorted it when you conveyed it through. Yes, anyone can misinterpret, tamper or distort God’s Word as what you just did and this is exactly one problem which Jeremiah was dealing with in the Southern Kingdom of Judah. Read the next chapter where God said that the people live in the midst of deception; in fact, there were already false priests and prophets. If you keep on reading to the next chapters, it again talks of the same covenant that goes back to Exodus 19 because they have again turned away from God. Have you not even noticed that God already knew what was happening and was communicating with Jeremiah? Have you also not noticed that Jeremiah was already recording all these events that was happening? Read on and see what God will do. Will God allow the people to continue with the sins they were doing? Jeremiah’s message is simple: “Repent and turn to God, or God will punish!”

    You see, the ability of man to cause error has no bearing on the power of God to preserve His Word!!! Man tampering and misinterpreting God’s Word does not conclude that God will not preserve His Word. If you start looking at what man can do to distort God’s Word, then that alone is what you see but unfortunately, you started your search with your wrong foot forward.

    This is also the reason why you have boxed your view about Christ to his walk towards the cross and his death alone. You said, “According to the Bible Jesus was brought back to life…” (end of quote). You had it distorted again, Jesus was not brought back to life but He rose back to life! Unfortunately, you only picked the cross as truth and the rest are lies. That’s not a good argument – your conclusion already contradicts your assumptions. You missed all of Israel’s history and how God prepared them for Christ’s coming. Have you not even wondered why Christ died exactly at the time of when it was prophesied and resurrected at the time when it was prophesied? How about all the hundreds of prophesies in the OT about Christ?

    God could simply say I forgive… God could even just end evil so that we don’t have problems with the Ten Commandments and we all live peacefully on earth but why did God allow satan to deceive man? Wait a minute, we can’t keep on going without knowing what’s happening. What is God’s plan? And stepping back further, why did God even create man if man will just disobey Him? I mentioned many other questions in my previous post. Try to answer those in your search of the Scriptures but please don’t look somewhere else because it’s simply not logical.

    You said, “…Anyway, I know there is only One God because that message is universal through all the prophets but trinity and Jesus’ sacrifice troubled me.” “…These 2 verses clearly said the law of the Lord/Bible can and has been tampered by scribes since the very early days and as such the Bible today contains a mixture of truths and lies and has been so for such a long time that its not really hard to see why billions today have taken it as the absolute truth as someone before said in this forum ‘If you continuously tell a lie, then over a period of time that lie will be perceived as the truth’.” (end of quote)

    Have you ever noticed that you are accepting the One God concept because it is a universal view but not the Bible despite the billions of people who disagree with you? So how many people do you think would it take to qualify truth as truth and false as false? Here’s a fact: The truth about God does not rely on the wisdom of man!

    You also need to quality the definition of some terminologies you are using e.g. sacrifice. You cannot simply use a word and define/interpret it according to what suits you and treat that as truth then apply it as you search the Scriptures. Because the Biblical context does not suit your interpretation do not mean that the Bible is false. The conflicting views you are seeing is that you insist your own interpretation apart from the context of the Scriptures. You need to search the Scriptures for the right context and meaning of the words you are using. Think about it, how could you even say that the verse you are quoting is truth if your basic premise is that God’s Word is a mix-up of truth and lies? How could you tell which are truths and which are lies? How could you even say that you are right and the Bible is false? Who are you to say that? Be careful… that’s blasphemy!

    “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33)

    By the way, allow me to correct some statements (another example of distortion but I will preserve what I have said):

    • You said, “It all begin because I started to think. Maybe that’s where my problem is as you said we are not suppose to think when studying the Bible.” (end of quote) >>> I did not say this and this statement is false because logically how could you study if you don’t think. You would know that the Bible says that we are to love God with all our mind, heart and soul. Faith is not the absence of thinking but it is ‘knowing’ that God will do His perfect will for His people, etc… Faith should rest on the power of God and not on the wisdom of man. (Rephrase of 1 Cor 2:5) “…substance of things hoped for and evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1). “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and never rely on what you think you know. Remember the Lord in everything you do and He will show you the right way!” (Proverbs 3:5-6)

    • You said, “I need to find the answers and as you correctly said ‘if we can figure out the solution then we do well but if not, then we are doomed?’” (end of quote) >>> I did not say that we figure out the solution. God did not and will not give us a puzzle to solve – not for man and for you to start solving. The Bible already gave us the solution and you cannot find it anywhere else! I also gave facts about the Bible and so, point me to another book that has better qualities and facts than the Bible. Questioning the validity of the Bible would question the validity of all historical documents.

    God is real, so when you search the Scriptures, pray that God will open your mind to His Word. Apologies if I sounded harsh when making a point…

    Again, God is greater than what our minds can think and imagine! To God be the glory!!!

  9. Jim_M - June 18, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    KH,
    You wrote “Jim, you don’t HAVE to understand it. If you understood it, you would be equal with God.”
    So, you are telling me all Christians do not or should not understand a single verse in the Bible because if they do, then they will be equal to God ?
    Your comparison of flying in an airplane to what I said is quite hilarious ! Of course I will fly in the airplane because that what’s airplanes are supposed to do – they fly. But if the airplane I’m supposed to fly in is a beat-up, old plane with visible cracks on the wings and the engine stalling intermittently, you think I won’t be troubled by it ? You think I won’t have serious doubts about the plane ? Similarly, God is the All-Powerful, All-Knowing, Creator and Greater than anything on earth and heavens but portrayed in the Bible as a helpless, beaten up and crucified man and you think its not right for me to be troubled by it ?? HOW CRAZY IS THAT?

  10. KH - June 18, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Jim, You said:

    “It troubled me to know that someone we love and called God had to die for our sins. It just don’t seem right. It troubled me to know someone we called God was so helpless, beaten up and then crucified and to think that was the most degrading punishment of the Romans days. When I spoke to a senior member of my church about what I was thinking, he told me that’s how much God love us. I told him it still does not seem right that God will choose this path.. this is the Almighty God who created Light by saying ‘Let there Be Light..’ and then He had to suffer and die to forgive our sins when He, in all His Greatness, could just simply say ‘I forgive’ ?”

    Jim, you don’t HAVE to understand it. If you understood it, you would be equal with God. But you are not. What you are saying is that you would not fly on an airplane unless you knew to the most minute detail how fuel and air and heat chemically and at a molecular and at the thermodynamic level worked together to cause the jet engine to provide thrust to lift the plane off of the ground. I doubt you know the thermodynamics involved with that, but you STILL will fly in an jet airplane. But for some reason, unless you know EVERY SINGLE, MINUTE DETAIL about the workings of God, you can’t be a Christian? HOW CRAZY IS THAT?

  11. SeekingTruth - June 17, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    Hi brother Rams,

    Happy Father’s Day… hope you and your family are always in good health and had a good weekend together. We should always honor our parents as we never know when they will always be with us. God, I missed my dad and wish he is still here with me.

    Jim_M/Eugene,
    Good discussions but at the end of day, people will believe what they want to believe.
    Jim_M, your beliefs are similar to a Muslim. Are you already a Muslim? Just curious.
    Anyway, best wishes to both of you.

    May the One and Only God Bless us and guide us to the true and straight path.

  12. Jim_M - June 17, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    Hello Eugene,
    Firstly, hope you had a good and quality time with your family over the weekend like I did. Secondly, thanks for taking the time to respond to me as I know from your response, you have given a lot of thoughts to what you wrote and I appreciate that.
    I will agreed that my views are against the basic foundations of Christianity and that trouble me for quite some time too but then if I were to find the truth, then I must face my doubts head-on and pray to God that He will guide me to the right way. Its like if you want to know whats right, then you must know whats wrong in the first place and vice-versa. Its also because my views are against the Christianity foundations, I’m reluctant to declare my church/denomination out of respect for the church and I do not want to link my views to the church which I have been attending for so many years. I hope you can understand that.
    Why did my views change so drastically so as to challenge the very foundation of Christianity? It all begin because I started to think. Maybe that’s where my problem is as you said we are not suppose to think when studying the Bible. Anyway, I know there is only One God because that message is universal through all the prophets but trinity and Jesus’ sacrifice troubled me. It troubled me to know that someone we love and called God had to die for our sins. It just don’t seem right. It troubled me to know someone we called God was so helpless, beaten up and then crucified and to think that was the most degrading punishment of the Romans days. When I spoke to a senior member of my church about what I was thinking, he told me that’s how much God love us. I told him it still does not seem right that God will choose this path.. this is the Almighty God who created Light by saying ‘Let there Be Light..’ and then He had to suffer and die to forgive our sins when He, in all His Greatness, could just simply say ‘I forgive’ ? To this, he just said ‘Well, He could but He chose to sacrifice Himself for our sins for He love us all’. I was a bit disappointed with his answer so I told him even the so-called sacrifice is not really a sacrifice because sacrifice means to lose forever something that you valued very much for example if I sacrifice one of my kidney to save my brother, I will not get back the very same kidney I sacrificed.. that’s the value of my sacrifice for the love of my brother. According to the Bible Jesus was brought back to life, the people got him back so what’s the value of the sacrifice ? By now, I know he was getting agitated and he told me not to question so much but just have faith. So, here I am with conflicting views but still troubled as these stories are told in the Bible and the Bible was supposed to represent the Words of God. I need to find the answers and as you correctly said ‘if we can figure out the solution then we do well but if not, then we are doomed?’ So, I came to the point where its either I’m right or the Bible I’m reading is right. If I’m right, then the Bible, which I believe ORIGINALLY IS TRUE, must have been distorted by man. I decided to study the religious scriptures, in particular the Bible again for I believe if the Bible is indeed distorted, it must have been prophesized as so many others that have been prophesized in the Bible and came by. Then I came across Deuteronomy 31:25-29 where Moses predicted the corruption of the Bible after his death. Not only Moses predicted the corruption of the Bible after his death, God Himself later said ‘Even the stork in the heavens knows her times; and the turtledove, swallow, and crane keep the time of their coming; but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has MADE IT INTO A LIE’ Jeremiah 8:7-8. These 2 verses clearly said the law of the Lord/Bible can and has been tampered by scribes since the very early days and as such the Bible today contains a mixture of truths and lies and has been so for such a long time that its not really hard to see why billions today have taken it as the absolute truth as someone before said in this forum ‘If you continuously tell a lie, then over a period of time that lie will be perceived as the truth’.

    God bless you too, my friend!

  13. Rams - June 16, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    A comment on Fathers Day,

    As we come on yet another day designated by man as a day of honoring our fathers one reality stands out in my mind, “a day is only 24 hours”…

    I put this thought out for discussion and maybe even daily contemplation on one of many other commandments our Christ obeyed, in this case, the 5th commandment.

    Has this holiday watered down that of honoring our fathers? Does “Honor your mother and your Father” mean what it means, to honor them 365 days?

    So what do my fellow students and disciples of Christ say… paranoia or truth?

    The response I have heard (from non-students of scripture) argue “what’s the big deal, it is not a bad thing to honor our father,” some even that, “it feels right to choose as special day for a special person”. My question then,”what of the other 364 days”. “Oh, I love my father then too” seems to be the consensus. So, why the one day then, what is up with one special day if we are called to honor them everyday?

    Can a contrast be drawn here to examples found in scripture which points to Israels’ continued goal to define self rule in the face of the Grace and Love of an omniscient Father. Is this but another example of the disobedient child?

    Does the example of Y’Shua who taught us that of obedience to the Father (to the death if need be) mean he too was obedient to the commandments of the Father? in that proving the obedient son? a Holy (Set Apart) example we call our Messiah? An example that if followed by us leads to full acceptance and salvation by the Father? It would make sense right?

    As far as I can summarize it, “may all obedience be to YHVH (the Father), in following the example of Y’Shua (The Father’s Salvation)… the obedient son.

    What say my brethren… Any takers?

  14. Redraider Ttu - June 16, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    "doesn't that mean just about every church and home is doing it wrong…"

    It's not possible to answer your question with the information in your post. How do you figure that "just about every church and home is doing it wrong"? It depends on what you mean by that. Without further explanation of your comment, I can't answer that question.

  15. Eugene - June 16, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Hi Jim M,

    My question does matter… I have already mentioned that I want to understand where you are coming from. Your affiliation would tell us your foundation of faith and I personally would respect that. I don’t understand why you have to attack since I was only asking a simple honest question. Mind you, I have many friends from different faiths… you name it. If you answer my previous question, it would be easier for us to draw lines of common ground if we know the foundation of each of our faiths.

    What is clear to me is that…
    – You question the basic foundations of Christianity.
    – You question the validity of the Bible – it being distorted by man.
    – You suggest that Christians look for truth in some other places.

    Previously, you professed being a Christian but your faith is against Christianity and now, you are unwilling to declare your own faith. So, here’s our problem:

    ⎯ I/we cannot align your faith with the Christian faith.
    ⎯ It’s difficult to carry out discussion with some deception because that’s basically what satan does. There’s really no point of discussion and we will just go in circles.
    ⎯ You are studying ‘religion’ and insist a certain belief but hey, we are discussing the 10 Commandments of the Bible. We study the Scriptures and not religion… read my previous posts.

    If we know your faith, then we will know how to move forward. If you have set your faith on something, then let it be. You can’t keep on arguing about something that is inconsistent with the Scriptures. If you want to know how conclusions came about, we could help point you to the Scriptures – in fact, there’s already a lot in this thread!!! So, could we agree to study and discuss the Scriptures?

    Let me start…

    1) No one is arguing with you about the fact that there is only One God. The disagreement is how God revealed and manifested Himself throughout history. Before you conclude anything about God, it would be best to read the Bible from cover to cover because it would tell you clearly how God revealed and manifested Himself to man throughout history.

    2) You say that there is only One God and agree with Ex 20:3 but disagree with the rest of the Scriptures(?). If the rest of the Scriptures are erroneous, how and why could you even believe Ex 20:3 in the first place? Would that not just render everything in the Bible as false? Now, which part of the Scriptures do you disagree with? Is it because some other religion says that there is only one god? How about the other religions who believe in many gods? Do you really think that God would give us a puzzle and spread His Word among many religion – if we figure out the solution then we do well but if not, then we are doomed?

    3) We talk about the 1st Commandment and the Almighty God but you view Him differently… totally opposed to what the Scriptures reveal about God. Here’s a simple reason why: ‘The god you are declaring is too weak to even help himself and protect his word against human error in passing his message to man such that you have to search on your own effort for the Creator’s truth. You are so focused on what man can do to distort God’s Word and forget the fact that God, He is the Almighty!’

    Let us make this clear and answer the following questions:
    • Would you agree that the God who wrote the Ten Commandments is the Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth? If you don’t agree, (a) then there’s no point of having reverence to some deity who can’t even help himself. Otherwise, (b) we just committed idolatry.
    • If yes, would you agree that God would communicate with man? “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” (Psalm 11:105) If you don’t agree, then what’s the point of creating man and us living on earth? How would we ever know that there is God in the first place? Who started that idea about God? How could man even conclude that there’s only One God? How would we know where to look for God if we don’t know that He even exist? How would we even know what we should do? How would we know whether we are living life in accordance to God’s will?
    • If yes, would you agree that the God Almighty is mighty enough to preserve His Word from eternity to eternity? “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33) If you don’t agree, then we are declaring that he is not Almighty at all – a weakling. If man is mightier than god that he needs our help to find him and his truth, then what’s the point of talking about God? The God who gave the Ten Commandments has just displayed to Israel and the rest of humanity who He is and what His power can do. Preserving His Word is no more than just a piece of cake. Come on, God knows satan’s scheming and man’s nature and there’s already many religions out there. Do you think that God will not do something about that and leave man to his doom?
    • If yes, would you agree that God should have His Word preserved for His people to know and learn? “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Read Psalm 119:1-16) If you don’t agree as you kept on saying that God’s Word is distorted, then you either question (a) the power of God or (b) the existence of God.
    • If you say there is one, which one is it?
    – Point me to one and give me facts about it. If you question the validity of the Bible, how much facts about the Bible have you researched?
    – Tell me how God revealed and manifested Himself throughout history.
    – Tell me about God’s attributes and character.
    – Tell me what God’s message to man is.

    You see, the God who created the heavens and the earth is so much more than what our minds can think or imagine. “Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!
    You have set your glory in the heavens. Through the praise of children and infants,
 you have established a stronghold against your enemies, to silence the foe and the avenger. When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them?” (Psalm 8:1-4) The Almighty God who cares for His creation. He will never leave man ignorant of who his Creator is and what his Creator’s laws and decrees are. And God will never allow His people to go astray – look at the journey of the Israelites. From the time the Israelites left Egypt to the time they reached the Promised Land, God was always there – to teach and correct them and even to fight their battles with them. Again, remember that Egypt is a picture of sin and the Israelites a picture of sinners redeemed from bondage to the Egyptians (a picture of satan). And God has given us His Word… if you want facts about the Bible, here are some:

    1. Fact 01: The Bible contains 66 books recorded by 40 different individuals written over a period of about 1600 years. Despite the fact that all these people didn’t meet during their lifetime, the Bible has a unified message from cover to cover.
    2. Fact 02: There are more ancient manuscripts of the Bible discovered than any other ancient document. There are about 24,000 hand written manuscripts with copies from as early as 25 years after the date of writing of the NT. OT manuscripts written before Christ exist and new archeological findings of 2000years old manuscripts have been found to confirm what has been translated in the Bible.
    3. Fact 03: Many Biblical prophecies have already been fulfilled. Not just 1, 2 or 10 but hundreds. So what distortion are we talking about if the prophecies are even fulfilled? Were they written after things happened? Remember that we are talking about a record of Israel’s history. How about archeological findings of old manuscripts written long time before fulfillment of the prophecies? If there’s distortion, you could always compare it with the fulfilled prophecies if they are consistent.
    4. Fact 04: The Bible is better verified and exonerated, than any other document in all of human history. This is not the first time that the validity of the Bible was questioned. The Bible has been watched, criticized, scrutinized, examined, commented on and evaluated for thousands of years and has consistently been proven to be reliable, accurate, and an exact representation of the original documents penned. The Bible has most manuscripts in possession than any other document of antiquity, which makes it the most valid historical document in the world. If we are to question its validity despite the fact that it has most manuscripts available, then we are just saying that all historical documents are questionable as well including whatever religious books.
    5. Fact 05: The Bible is the most quoted, the most published, the most translated and the most influential book in the history of mankind…

    These are just a few facts of the Bible but we wonder how all these facts can be a reality for one Book. Unfortunately, many people try to interpret the Bible using logic because they basically blinded or do not believe in God – the Author of the Scriptures… but what’s the probability of one fact mentioned here becoming a reality for one Book? How much more for all the facts…? Now, point to me another book that represents all these facts. Again, the God Almighty is much more greater than satan’s scheming and the errors of man!!!

    God bless you my friend!

  16. Steve - June 16, 2012 at 12:42 am

    Jim M,

    The problem is that you keep on arguing the same thing over and over again – and you have received numerous answers, with numerous verses, from numerous books of the Bible, but still you are arguing the same thing – that the Bible is corrupt.

    As for my beliefs: I already gave them in the past. In addition, there were others that shared their beliefs SUCH AS I HOLD, and I didn’t think I needed to REPEAT what they said (unlike you).

    You won’t change those people’s minds because they gave you their best answers, with the Bible being their foundation. But you believe the Bible is corrupt – and they don’t. So, obviously, whatever they say to you, it’s not acceptable to you because you don’t believe in what is written in the Bible – because for you the Bible is not God’s true Word – it is corrupted. That puts an end to any further discussion because that would mean that the Bible cannot be used as a point of reference. So, there is nothing more to discuss if you cannot use something as a point of reference.

    What’s that saying? “There are none so blind as those that do not want to see”?
    I hope that you CAN see that it is the end of it, because only the 2 of us are putting this discussion to death and the final nails into the coffin. Let’s bury it and move on to new things.

    I am sure that if you come to the conclusion, sometime in the future, that the Bible is true, you will move on to new questions. Then there could be a real discussion, because you would want to use the Bible as a guiding reference and not say that it is invalid as a point of reference because it is corrupted.

  17. Jim_M - June 15, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    Okay, Steve. I got it that you yourself have no opinions or views on what I said or any of the discussions in this forum.
    I don’t think people are stupid for expressing their minds. I may not be convinced by their arguments but I do learn something from them and that’s what make me participate in these kind of forums , not to exchange ‘words’ like what we are doing now, but to challenge my own thinking and learn from others who have a different mindsets. And there’s a lot to discuss, argue and learn from the Bible. There will be repeat arguments maybe discussed in a different light, repeat evidences maybe presented from a different views, repeat verses maybe explained differently and many other repeats after all the Bible is made up of about 66 books and written by 40 different authors so you can expect a lot of repeats and topics to talk about.
    You are right it IS getting BORING (I’m sure other readers are yawning too at our antics) so I will stop here… unless of course you have a different views and evidences you want to share.

  18. Steve - June 15, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    Jim M,

    You have been given all the evidence and facts already – and MANY TIMES OVER. Unlike you, I don’t want to repeat what was already mentioned on this thread.

    People will believe what they want to, and since you think your beliefs are correct, and the others think their beliefs are correct – then there is no more room for discussion, because it is not discussion anymore, but badgering.

    “What’s your next step?” means that we GOT IT what you believe, so move on and stop repeating the same things over and over again. It’s getting really BORING and people are not as stupid as you may think.

  19. Jim_M - June 15, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Steve,
    Whats your problem, buddy ?? Of course I am repeating myself like an old record because as you correctly pointed out,I have not change my views. Without equating myself to God, God too repeat Himself or thru His Messengers (in your terms,like an old record) in many verses because He Himself does not change. Do you have problem with that too ? What’s my next step? Whats that suppose to mean ? I do read the responses of others to me and I think I have responded too. Instead of just lashing out at me, why don’t you give your views/evidences and prove me wrong. If you are right, I will tell you ‘you are right’ if not, I will show you why I disagree.
    We can discuss and agree or disagree like gentlemen, right ?
    Shalom.

  20. Steve - June 15, 2012 at 1:04 am

    Jim M,

    You have been on this thread for a very long time, and nothing has changed in your views in spite of your short absence, because you are repeating yourself like a broken-record, while you have received numerous answers from others. Obviously you don’t intend to study any of the answers seriously, because by your responses it seems you are not even reading them. If you were reading and studying the responses of others, you would not be REPEATING and REPEATING and REPEATING yourself. OK, WE GOT IT!!! You made it clear that you think the Bible is corrupted in spite of other evidences given to you. What’s your next step???

  21. Pricilla - June 14, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    Hi Teresa,

    Just in case you are still reading the comments, I see that you received answers to the first part of your question (commandments 1 and 2). I would like to explain the second part regarding the “coveting”.

    If you read in the New Testament where Jesus says that even thinking about another person lustfully is the same as if that person committed adultery in their heart, then coveting is also a sin of the heart.

    Coveting is wanting the things that another person has. It comes from jealousy and it is not just wanting to have AS nice a car AS the other person, or AS great a wife as the other person, or AS beautiful house as the other person has. Coveting is wanting that other person’s ACTUAL car, their ACTUAL wife, THEIR actual house. It’s like throwing that other person out and moving in with all of his possessions. It’s not like BUYING the same things that the other person has, but actually wanting to POSSESS the things that the other person has. So, coveting is the sin of the heart – and it is not the same as commandment 7 (adultery) and 8 (stealing) because these commandments are actual acts that can be seen on the outside and people usually get caught doing those things. Coveting is in the heart – on the inside. We should not DESIRE the ACTUAL possessions of others.

    As for the “neighbor” in this context – that means whoever you probably know. It doesn’t have to be your actual neighbor – it could be someone that you don’t even talk to that lives down the street, or someone that you work with, or even a friend of a friend with whom you don’t even associate but you know all about him and what he has. It can be also someone that you read about in the newspaper that has all the things that your heart desires and you start coveting their things.

    The “donkey” in this context would probably mean in our day like a truck that serves us in our work, or maybe a tractor or something like that – because in those times, the donkey was the working animal. It carried big loads, it pulled carts, etc. It is a possession of another person, just like any other possession.

    I hope this helps.

  22. Jim_M - June 14, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    Eugene,
    Does it really matter which church or denomination or religious group I associate myself with ? Does that make my arguments less valid if I don’t belong to the same church or denomination as yours ? Where I am coming from is not based from which church/denomination or religious group I associated with but those are my personal views from my years of religious studies. I seek for the truth in a religion not tailored-fit a religion into the truth. If you feel the truth can only be found within your church or denomination or religious group you associated with, then that’s your limitations. If you are not comfortable with what I have said about the validity of today’s Bible or the Trinity Doctrine, then present your views. At the end of the day, we can honestly agree or honestly disagree.
    God bless you too, my friend !

  23. Eugene - June 14, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    Hi Jim_M,

    I have been wanting to ask you one question since before. Kindly allow me to do so now… which church or denomination or religious group do you associate yourself with and attend regularly? …because you have been questioning the validity of the Bible in this long thread yet point your answers to the same book and also mentions that truth could be found from other places. I don’t want to guess which foundation of faith this comes from. Not to be rude but I simply want to understand where you are coming from.

    God bless you my friend!

  24. Markus Templeton - June 11, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    Why would God command the Israelites to not carve images and then to create the ark of the covenant? We must pay attention to context before interpreting the word of God. Surely God gave us creativity for a reason; He simply commands that we would not use it to create objects of worship. To tell us not to carve any images whatsoever would be to deny us of one of the biggest gifts He has given us: imagination. Also the idea of imagination as a part of human life explains even more of how we are created in the image of God and in His likeness.

  25. Markus Templeton - June 9, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    This commandment was put forth about not worshipping these creations or making them in order to worship them. So if people worship the cross, then the purpose of the making the symbol of the cross is wicked, but if one makes a cross as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice for us, then it is not breaking this commandment. Notice His statement "you shall not bow down to them nor serve them."

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